Comments on: The Proof Is In The Poseidon http://www.thadguy.com/comic/the-proof-is-in-the-poseidon/209/ Thu, 04 Mar 2010 22:37:05 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Artemis http://www.thadguy.com/comic/the-proof-is-in-the-poseidon/209/comment-page-2/#comment-98184 Artemis Thu, 04 Mar 2010 22:37:05 +0000 http://www.thadguy.com/comic/the-proof-is-in-the-poseidon/209/#comment-98184 But my father's brother does exist! And he is not the source of the sea, but it's master (but only after the Olympians overthrew the Titans)! Gaea is the source of the sea, she created Pontus after she created Uranus and the Mountains! Alas, I must be off, my fingers itch to let fly my golden arrows... But my father’s brother does exist! And he is not the source of the sea, but it’s master (but only after the Olympians overthrew the Titans)! Gaea is the source of the sea, she created Pontus after she created Uranus and the Mountains!

Alas, I must be off, my fingers itch to let fly my golden arrows…

]]> By: smartalek http://www.thadguy.com/comic/the-proof-is-in-the-poseidon/209/comment-page-2/#comment-93516 smartalek Fri, 02 Oct 2009 18:00:52 +0000 http://www.thadguy.com/comic/the-proof-is-in-the-poseidon/209/#comment-93516 2+ years later, I'll add my kudos to the stack; the punchline chosen beats the harry-potter option both because it more accurately analogises the original argument (for the clever) and because it's topically consistent (for the ones who might have trouble w/analogies and abstract thought -- and there are more of them out there than you think). thad, thank u so much for this brilliance definitions and lolsuz, thank u for the Einstein and Epicurus quotes; I'd never read either before Though I do feel moved to point out that there are at least some people in the world who would not accept definition's definition: "good: action done for the benefit of others." Followers of Ayn Rand would strenuously disagree. And though recent history provides some very strong evidence against the Randians' take on reality, unfortunately, it's pretty clear that at least some of her followers (and possibly all remaining ones) have such fact-resistant faith in her belief system as to constitute a religion. (Ironic, considering she was well-known as an atheist herself.) 2+ years later, I’ll add my kudos to the stack; the punchline chosen beats the harry-potter option both because it more accurately analogises the original argument (for the clever) and because it’s topically consistent (for the ones who might have trouble w/analogies and abstract thought — and there are more of them out there than you think).
thad, thank u so much for this brilliance
definitions and lolsuz, thank u for the Einstein and Epicurus quotes; I’d never read either before
Though I do feel moved to point out that there are at least some people in the world who would not accept definition’s definition:
“good: action done for the benefit of others.”
Followers of Ayn Rand would strenuously disagree. And though recent history provides some very strong evidence against the Randians’ take on reality, unfortunately, it’s pretty clear that at least some of her followers (and possibly all remaining ones) have such fact-resistant faith in her belief system as to constitute a religion. (Ironic, considering she was well-known as an atheist herself.)

]]> By: lolsuz http://www.thadguy.com/comic/the-proof-is-in-the-poseidon/209/comment-page-2/#comment-92870 lolsuz Mon, 17 Aug 2009 17:53:22 +0000 http://www.thadguy.com/comic/the-proof-is-in-the-poseidon/209/#comment-92870 The Tantoblin said, "Short answer: If there were no consequences for our choices, then nothing would mean anything." Far from it; we suffer the consequences of our actions and inactions every day, regardless of our beliefs and of the presence or absence of the panorama of deities that are venerated by humans. Following the Christian view that god is all-knowing, all-powerful, and always right, there are no consequences for god's choices, rendering god meaningless. By your logic, humans have more meaning than god. (A statement that I could not agree more with personally!) Again I am reminded (as I so frequently am) of Epicurous' line of questioning: “Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?” Indeed, why even bother with a god at all? The amount of convoluted anti-logic required for the faithful to sustain their faith SHOULD be a tip-off to them that there's something terribly wrong going on. If you had a boat full of holes, and the holes were plastered with patches that also had holes, and those patches had patches that also had holes.... leaving you with a boat that's more patch than boat... wouldn't you just throw the damned thing away?! The Tantoblin said, “Short answer: If there were no consequences for our choices, then nothing would mean anything.” Far from it; we suffer the consequences of our actions and inactions every day, regardless of our beliefs and of the presence or absence of the panorama of deities that are venerated by humans.

Following the Christian view that god is all-knowing, all-powerful, and always right, there are no consequences for god’s choices, rendering god meaningless. By your logic, humans have more meaning than god. (A statement that I could not agree more with personally!)

Again I am reminded (as I so frequently am) of Epicurous’ line of questioning:
“Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God?”

Indeed, why even bother with a god at all?

The amount of convoluted anti-logic required for the faithful to sustain their faith SHOULD be a tip-off to them that there’s something terribly wrong going on. If you had a boat full of holes, and the holes were plastered with patches that also had holes, and those patches had patches that also had holes…. leaving you with a boat that’s more patch than boat… wouldn’t you just throw the damned thing away?!

]]> By: the Tantoblin http://www.thadguy.com/comic/the-proof-is-in-the-poseidon/209/comment-page-2/#comment-92859 the Tantoblin Mon, 17 Aug 2009 02:33:36 +0000 http://www.thadguy.com/comic/the-proof-is-in-the-poseidon/209/#comment-92859 That is such a great quote Definitions. Einstein was a brilliant, logical man. I understand completely what he was saying. We are the way God created us, how can He deal out judgment on His creations without also dealing out judgment on himself. As humans, we create lots of things. Sometimes they go as planned, sometimes they don't. We don't claim to be omniscient, omnipresent, or omnipotent; so we can sometimes get out of moral responsibility for our creations. Things happen that we don't always intend. A being that is omniscient, omnipresent, and omnipotent can not claim that. So as Einstein stated, "In giving out punishment and rewards He would to a certain extent be passing judgment on Himself." I guess here is a possible answer. Out of all creation, made from man or made from God, humanity is the only creation to be given free will. We were made in his image. We have the choice to do right or wrong. We have the choice to love or hate. We decide who we are. We are not carbon based robots. We have the ability to make choices, and that brings responsibility and consequence. In a way, God gave us the ability to "create ourselves". Obviously, we all have limitations that an omniscient, omnipresent, and omnipotent God does not. As a Christian, I find the last part of Einstein's comment harder to take. "How can this be combined with the goodness and righteousness ascribed to Him?" Life can be hard. Not just our choices, but the choices of others effect our lives as well. People spend there whole lives just trying to be okay, or to feel happy, or to know what love is; to feel it even just for a moment. It is hard to take the thought that we are going to be judged after it is over. Here in part is where my own personal faith saves me. I believe in His goodness. I believe in His love for me. I trust Him. For everyone else trying to rationalize it... Well, you are not really trying to rationalize it, you are trying to use judgment as some way of disproving God by making a contradiction... but for everyone else, I would say to be fair that There are a lot of different view points on "Hell" and judgment even in Christianity. As far as Pitchforks comments to me, I am a little confused as to what you are asking me. I will try to answer though. You said, "The logic is this…if god exists, then atheists don’t; because atheists don’t believe in… HMMMM?!?" It is a false if then statement. It implies that something doesn't exist if you don't believe in it or that nothing can exist that does not believe in something if the said something really does exist. It's not logical. It is a fallacy. If I am not understanding what he is saying, then I apologize and am up for more explanation from someone. I had to read the second part a few times, but I think I get what you are asking. I think you are asking, if God is all powerful, then why doesn't he do more? Or some people would ask it this way(maybe not you), If God is omnipotent, then why does he let bad things happen to good people? I have a short answer and a long answer. I will give the short answer first so that those who are tired of reading my post can stop. lol Keep in mind that I, in no shape or form have claimed to be omniscient, so I am not always right. It's sad. I know. Short answer: If there were no consequences for our choices, then nothing would mean anything. If God stepped in every time someone made a bad choice that effected their life or the lives of others, then having free will, the greatest gift ever given, would mean nothing. Now the... Long answer: So let's say that God came to me before He created the earth(I am aware of the logical flaw here lol) with two different versions of the world and wanted to get my opinion on it. In the first version every one was always happy. No one ever hurt. No one ever cried out of sadness. Every one felt joy and excitement every day. Every one loved and respected every one else. There was no sickness or death. There was no pain. Hearts were always full and never broken. There was no need for hope, because you knew that you would always get what you wanted and it would always be what others wanted to happen as well. And I am like, "Wow. That sounds pretty good God." Then He shows me the second world. It's a world where people live and die. It's a world with hate and love. Sometimes good people will try with futility to do the right thing and fail. Sometimes people will hurt each other or themselves out of anger or spite or to take what they want from someone else. This world has heartache and brokenness. It has love and joy. Sometimes people will sacrifice for the happiness of others. This world will have great loss and pain and sickness. Sometimes good people will fall. Sometimes people who are broken will fight for redemption and win. This world can be hard... But whatever it becomes it is what the people chose to make it. And no matter what, it will be the most beautiful thing in all of creation. I know what world I would choose. I have given that analogy a few times, and I don't always feel like the other person or people feel the same way or get what I am saying, but there it is anyway. I guess what I am saying is that free will comes with consequences. It doesn't mean it's not beautiful. For those that would have taken the first world, I guess I would just ask if they think that love, real love, can really exist without free will; without choice. And maybe that is what this whole creation thing is about... Anyway. thanks for reading. I am not perfect. I am sure I am wrong about something, but there are some of my thoughts... That is such a great quote Definitions. Einstein was a brilliant, logical man. I understand completely what he was saying. We are the way God created us, how can He deal out judgment on His creations without also dealing out judgment on himself. As humans, we create lots of things. Sometimes they go as planned, sometimes they don’t. We don’t claim to be omniscient, omnipresent, or omnipotent; so we can sometimes get out of moral responsibility for our creations. Things happen that we don’t always intend. A being that is omniscient, omnipresent, and omnipotent can not claim that. So as Einstein stated, “In giving out punishment and rewards He would to a certain extent be passing judgment on Himself.” I guess here is a possible answer. Out of all creation, made from man or made from God, humanity is the only creation to be given free will. We were made in his image. We have the choice to do right or wrong. We have the choice to love or hate. We decide who we are. We are not carbon based robots. We have the ability to make choices, and that brings responsibility and consequence. In a way, God gave us the ability to “create ourselves”. Obviously, we all have limitations that an omniscient, omnipresent, and omnipotent God does not. As a Christian, I find the last part of Einstein’s comment harder to take. “How can this be combined with the goodness and righteousness ascribed to Him?” Life can be hard. Not just our choices, but the choices of others effect our lives as well. People spend there whole lives just trying to be okay, or to feel happy, or to know what love is; to feel it even just for a moment. It is hard to take the thought that we are going to be judged after it is over. Here in part is where my own personal faith saves me. I believe in His goodness. I believe in His love for me. I trust Him. For everyone else trying to rationalize it… Well, you are not really trying to rationalize it, you are trying to use judgment as some way of disproving God by making a contradiction… but for everyone else, I would say to be fair that There are a lot of different view points on “Hell” and judgment even in Christianity.
As far as Pitchforks comments to me, I am a little confused as to what you are asking me. I will try to answer though. You said, “The logic is this…if god exists, then atheists don’t; because atheists don’t believe in… HMMMM?!?” It is a false if then statement. It implies that something doesn’t exist if you don’t believe in it or that nothing can exist that does not believe in something if the said something really does exist. It’s not logical. It is a fallacy. If I am not understanding what he is saying, then I apologize and am up for more explanation from someone.
I had to read the second part a few times, but I think I get what you are asking. I think you are asking, if God is all powerful, then why doesn’t he do more? Or some people would ask it this way(maybe not you), If God is omnipotent, then why does he let bad things happen to good people? I have a short answer and a long answer. I will give the short answer first so that those who are tired of reading my post can stop. lol Keep in mind that I, in no shape or form have claimed to be omniscient, so I am not always right. It’s sad. I know. Short answer: If there were no consequences for our choices, then nothing would mean anything. If God stepped in every time someone made a bad choice that effected their life or the lives of others, then having free will, the greatest gift ever given, would mean nothing. Now the…
Long answer: So let’s say that God came to me before He created the earth(I am aware of the logical flaw here lol) with two different versions of the world and wanted to get my opinion on it. In the first version every one was always happy. No one ever hurt. No one ever cried out of sadness. Every one felt joy and excitement every day. Every one loved and respected every one else. There was no sickness or death. There was no pain. Hearts were always full and never broken. There was no need for hope, because you knew that you would always get what you wanted and it would always be what others wanted to happen as well. And I am like, “Wow. That sounds pretty good God.” Then He shows me the second world. It’s a world where people live and die. It’s a world with hate and love. Sometimes good people will try with futility to do the right thing and fail. Sometimes people will hurt each other or themselves out of anger or spite or to take what they want from someone else. This world has heartache and brokenness. It has love and joy. Sometimes people will sacrifice for the happiness of others. This world will have great loss and pain and sickness. Sometimes good people will fall. Sometimes people who are broken will fight for redemption and win. This world can be hard… But whatever it becomes it is what the people chose to make it. And no matter what, it will be the most beautiful thing in all of creation. I know what world I would choose. I have given that analogy a few times, and I don’t always feel like the other person or people feel the same way or get what I am saying, but there it is anyway. I guess what I am saying is that free will comes with consequences. It doesn’t mean it’s not beautiful. For those that would have taken the first world, I guess I would just ask if they think that love, real love, can really exist without free will; without choice. And maybe that is what this whole creation thing is about…
Anyway. thanks for reading. I am not perfect. I am sure I am wrong about something, but there are some of my thoughts…

]]> By: lolsuz http://www.thadguy.com/comic/the-proof-is-in-the-poseidon/209/comment-page-2/#comment-88612 lolsuz Mon, 22 Dec 2008 18:53:33 +0000 http://www.thadguy.com/comic/the-proof-is-in-the-poseidon/209/#comment-88612 I don't see any comic here... but then again I don't believe in Thad Guy. I don’t see any comic here… but then again I don’t believe in Thad Guy.

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