The Proof Is In The Poseidon

Atheists don't believe God exists. However, God is the basis of all morality.

 
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Dialog:

  • Port:
    • Atheists don't believe God exists. However, God is the basis of all morality.
    • This must mean that atheist don't believe morality exists.
  • {pause}
  • Starboard:
    • You know who I don't believe exists? Poseidon.
    • However, being that he is the source of the sea, I don't believe the sea exists either.
 

75 Comments:

  1. piratess Says:

    can anyone explain the existence of morals. Did it come around together with the big bang or what. How is it we somehow know whats wrong or right. It sure as hell didn’t evolve.You don’t have to believe in god in order to have morals. You have them innately.

  2. definitions Says:

    hey piratess.

    morals exist because we are aware of our existence.

    society usually purges itself of “outlaws” because honestly; nobody wants to live next to a sexual predator, a murderer, a theif, a vandal etc… right? our judicial system evolved around that. so being an atheist, would a person suddenly feel that it is perfectly ok to rape their next door neighbor, cause “there is no god?”

    obviously, if this was your way of thinking, you are really just calling yourself an atheist as an act of rebelliousness toward religious belief. call yourself an anarchist.

    awareness of our existence led us to become aware of the existence of entities like ourselves; human beings, who could FEEL the same feelings we could. pain, joy, anger, hate, love etc… knowing that our actions can hurt another person, makes us think before we act. think of some animal capable of tearing flesh, does it go around tearing up its own kind just for fun? do healthy minded individuals go about inflicting pain in others just for the heck of it?

  3. piratess Says:

    apparently definitions you do not understand what I wrote. I simply meant to say morals is proof of the existence of God, and not as what you claim,because we are aware of our existence.
    Where we can steal in secret, where no one else will know what we did,why would some of us still choose not to do so.Why do we know what is right and what is wrong even without anyone telling us so.We do what is right sometimes even when there is no one to condemn us or know about it already shows that morals didn’t come into play because of the existence of others, or of ourselves.

  4. definitions Says:

    so you’d like to say that a lot of people don’t commit evil acts in secret only because god exists? thats a weak argument.

  5. God Says:

    I command you to stop arguing. I do not exist!

  6. The flying spaghetti monster Says:

    I weep for you all.

  7. Pasafarian Says:

    Yea verily i can feel his noodly appendage. May the sauce be with you!!

  8. Solanum Tuberosum Says:

    Humans have little going for them. They’re slow, weak, and usually have on average 2 children. Our brain and our social ability is what enables us to live. If we were all out for ourselves, and didn’t care about killing each other, then we would be extinct before you could say ‘arrested development’. However, this ‘morality’ is an evolutionary tool that enables us to advance in technology and destroy other organisms entirely.

  9. Ilana Says:

    I find it sad and pointless to argue with some ofthe posters whose minds are not open to questioning . Humans are inquisitive by nature, this is how we came to know what we know, and pursue what we do not. When a person stops this process due to dogma, I believe a piece of their escence, not to mention potential, is lost.

    Morality has existed in some manifestation since the beginnings of humanity, when the Judeo-Christian code emerged, it was clearly meant to act as a guide for peoples morality and to an ignorant mass, it would be most effective if personified and fabled. This is how the link between God and morality likely came to be, however it does not preclude morality from having existed for its own merit before notion of a God began to be drummed into peoples minds.

    As a side note, the comic is clear and to the point, the ending drives the analogy home regardless if the principles match.

    Atheists, I think it’s safe to say, do not proselitize (for the most part). We simply find it ludicrous that others haven’t yet figured it out.

  10. Kris *#2 Says:

    I really enjoyed “cursed…whatever”‘s contradicting claim about atheism being like religion but then not like a religion. That tickled me. I also couldn’t stop laughing after reading the witty sarcastic responses that apologize for the atheist movement invading our private worlds. S@#T’s hilarious.

  11. theTantoblin Says:

    I am a Christian, but I appreciate the cleverness of your comics(even this one). I guess my retort would be that belief in something has no basis on whether the something actually exists or not. So the argument presented in the comic really has no logical basis. If morality comes from God, not believing has no actual effect on his existance, so would not affect the existance of your morality if God was the source. I would also like to say that I understand that the biggest turn off in Christianity, in my opinion, is that all most people know of it comes from people who are or claim to be Christians. People, regardless of beliefs, are imperfect. It’s hard for peole to exept a “perfect” religion when the people who believe it are imperfect. “For all have sinned…” You have heard the rest from thos people at your door; you know the ones that came right after the door to door atheists.

  12. Vidar Says:

    The Poseidon ending was good. I liked it better than the Harry Potter one.

    About two months or so ago, I was watching a video on the possible source of human morality. It was going onto say that the human source of morality could have possibly come from apes, seeing as how apes help each other out. It was pretty interesting.

  13. Pitchfork Says:

    This is in comment to “theTantoblin”: The logic is this…if god exists, then atheists don’t; because atheists don’t believe in… HMMMM?!? Never seen, met or heard the tale of the dreaded “door 2 door atheists” either. So far as omni-presesnt and omniscient “G”ods go, where in your “G”ods name(which exudes all holiness and power) is the omni-“potence”? Just for STARTERS, riddle me that… w/out the “beyond our comprehension”/”G”ods divine and perfect infallable “will” argument(if you can even call that an argument). THIS GOs 4 ALL RELIGYS! P.S. Lovin’ the outlet, thanx THADGUY.

  14. definitions Says:

    dear true believers… einstein was a brilliant man, hear his words:

    If this being is omnipotent, then every occurrence, including every human action, every human thought, and every human feeling and aspiration is also His work; how is it possible to think of holding men responsible for their deeds and thoughts before such an almighty Being? In giving out punishment and rewards He would to a certain extent be passing judgment on Himself. How can this be combined with the goodness and righteousness ascribed to Him? [Albert Einstein, Out of My Later Years (New York: Philosophical Library, 1950), p. 27.]

    now how can you argue against such logic? play the ‘we are too stupid to understand’ card? well in using such an argument you will surely convince others of yourself being so…

  15. Ben Says:

    Hey.

    Quick question.

    When was Poseidon the source of the sea?

  16. thad Says:

    Yeah, you are right Ben. In Greek mythology Poseidon wasn’t the creator of the sea. However, his name has so much more recognition than Pontus or Oceanus and so much more connection to the sea than Gaia and Uranus. As a result, I used Poseidon anyway. 🙂

  17. Amy Says:

    Wow! That was interesting. And to think I was looking for an image for a Powerpoint presentation on geometry!

  18. umbra deus Says:

    i have read all the comments so far and have enjoyed the argument so i will give my view on it the main reason i,personally, am a atheist is because if there was a god who created us then why did he (or she) make us flawed then the almighty perfect being that is god sends us to hell (eternal danmnation) for it
    it makes no sence other than there is no god or there is a god but he (or she) is not the perfect being theists claim he (or she) is also if there is a god why doesnt it show him (or her) self to an aethist/world population because personally if i heard a booming vioce come from the sky or a person in the street saying that “i am god” and letting us test to se if thats true or not i would become a thiest but untill the day god comes a talks to me or reveals him (or her) self to the world i will not be conviced

    to all you clever so and sos that know latin you cant use my name against me at all the reason i picked it was because i like the sound of it not for its translated meaning

  19. umbra deus Says:

    *see

  20. Marina =]] Says:

    i laughed so hard at that!
    =]]

  21. lolsuz Says:

    I don’t see any comic here… but then again I don’t believe in Thad Guy.

  22. the Tantoblin Says:

    That is such a great quote Definitions. Einstein was a brilliant, logical man. I understand completely what he was saying. We are the way God created us, how can He deal out judgment on His creations without also dealing out judgment on himself. As humans, we create lots of things. Sometimes they go as planned, sometimes they don’t. We don’t claim to be omniscient, omnipresent, or omnipotent; so we can sometimes get out of moral responsibility for our creations. Things happen that we don’t always intend. A being that is omniscient, omnipresent, and omnipotent can not claim that. So as Einstein stated, “In giving out punishment and rewards He would to a certain extent be passing judgment on Himself.” I guess here is a possible answer. Out of all creation, made from man or made from God, humanity is the only creation to be given free will. We were made in his image. We have the choice to do right or wrong. We have the choice to love or hate. We decide who we are. We are not carbon based robots. We have the ability to make choices, and that brings responsibility and consequence. In a way, God gave us the ability to “create ourselves”. Obviously, we all have limitations that an omniscient, omnipresent, and omnipotent God does not. As a Christian, I find the last part of Einstein’s comment harder to take. “How can this be combined with the goodness and righteousness ascribed to Him?” Life can be hard. Not just our choices, but the choices of others effect our lives as well. People spend there whole lives just trying to be okay, or to feel happy, or to know what love is; to feel it even just for a moment. It is hard to take the thought that we are going to be judged after it is over. Here in part is where my own personal faith saves me. I believe in His goodness. I believe in His love for me. I trust Him. For everyone else trying to rationalize it… Well, you are not really trying to rationalize it, you are trying to use judgment as some way of disproving God by making a contradiction… but for everyone else, I would say to be fair that There are a lot of different view points on “Hell” and judgment even in Christianity.
    As far as Pitchforks comments to me, I am a little confused as to what you are asking me. I will try to answer though. You said, “The logic is this…if god exists, then atheists don’t; because atheists don’t believe in… HMMMM?!?” It is a false if then statement. It implies that something doesn’t exist if you don’t believe in it or that nothing can exist that does not believe in something if the said something really does exist. It’s not logical. It is a fallacy. If I am not understanding what he is saying, then I apologize and am up for more explanation from someone.
    I had to read the second part a few times, but I think I get what you are asking. I think you are asking, if God is all powerful, then why doesn’t he do more? Or some people would ask it this way(maybe not you), If God is omnipotent, then why does he let bad things happen to good people? I have a short answer and a long answer. I will give the short answer first so that those who are tired of reading my post can stop. lol Keep in mind that I, in no shape or form have claimed to be omniscient, so I am not always right. It’s sad. I know. Short answer: If there were no consequences for our choices, then nothing would mean anything. If God stepped in every time someone made a bad choice that effected their life or the lives of others, then having free will, the greatest gift ever given, would mean nothing. Now the…
    Long answer: So let’s say that God came to me before He created the earth(I am aware of the logical flaw here lol) with two different versions of the world and wanted to get my opinion on it. In the first version every one was always happy. No one ever hurt. No one ever cried out of sadness. Every one felt joy and excitement every day. Every one loved and respected every one else. There was no sickness or death. There was no pain. Hearts were always full and never broken. There was no need for hope, because you knew that you would always get what you wanted and it would always be what others wanted to happen as well. And I am like, “Wow. That sounds pretty good God.” Then He shows me the second world. It’s a world where people live and die. It’s a world with hate and love. Sometimes good people will try with futility to do the right thing and fail. Sometimes people will hurt each other or themselves out of anger or spite or to take what they want from someone else. This world has heartache and brokenness. It has love and joy. Sometimes people will sacrifice for the happiness of others. This world will have great loss and pain and sickness. Sometimes good people will fall. Sometimes people who are broken will fight for redemption and win. This world can be hard… But whatever it becomes it is what the people chose to make it. And no matter what, it will be the most beautiful thing in all of creation. I know what world I would choose. I have given that analogy a few times, and I don’t always feel like the other person or people feel the same way or get what I am saying, but there it is anyway. I guess what I am saying is that free will comes with consequences. It doesn’t mean it’s not beautiful. For those that would have taken the first world, I guess I would just ask if they think that love, real love, can really exist without free will; without choice. And maybe that is what this whole creation thing is about…
    Anyway. thanks for reading. I am not perfect. I am sure I am wrong about something, but there are some of my thoughts…

  23. lolsuz Says:

    The Tantoblin said, “Short answer: If there were no consequences for our choices, then nothing would mean anything.” Far from it; we suffer the consequences of our actions and inactions every day, regardless of our beliefs and of the presence or absence of the panorama of deities that are venerated by humans.

    Following the Christian view that god is all-knowing, all-powerful, and always right, there are no consequences for god’s choices, rendering god meaningless. By your logic, humans have more meaning than god. (A statement that I could not agree more with personally!)

    Again I am reminded (as I so frequently am) of Epicurous’ line of questioning:
    “Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
    Then he is not omnipotent.
    Is he able, but not willing?
    Then he is malevolent.
    Is he both able and willing?
    Then whence cometh evil?
    Is he neither able nor willing?
    Then why call him God?”

    Indeed, why even bother with a god at all?

    The amount of convoluted anti-logic required for the faithful to sustain their faith SHOULD be a tip-off to them that there’s something terribly wrong going on. If you had a boat full of holes, and the holes were plastered with patches that also had holes, and those patches had patches that also had holes…. leaving you with a boat that’s more patch than boat… wouldn’t you just throw the damned thing away?!

  24. smartalek Says:

    2+ years later, I’ll add my kudos to the stack; the punchline chosen beats the harry-potter option both because it more accurately analogises the original argument (for the clever) and because it’s topically consistent (for the ones who might have trouble w/analogies and abstract thought — and there are more of them out there than you think).
    thad, thank u so much for this brilliance
    definitions and lolsuz, thank u for the Einstein and Epicurus quotes; I’d never read either before
    Though I do feel moved to point out that there are at least some people in the world who would not accept definition’s definition:
    “good: action done for the benefit of others.”
    Followers of Ayn Rand would strenuously disagree. And though recent history provides some very strong evidence against the Randians’ take on reality, unfortunately, it’s pretty clear that at least some of her followers (and possibly all remaining ones) have such fact-resistant faith in her belief system as to constitute a religion. (Ironic, considering she was well-known as an atheist herself.)

  25. Artemis Says:

    But my father’s brother does exist! And he is not the source of the sea, but it’s master (but only after the Olympians overthrew the Titans)! Gaea is the source of the sea, she created Pontus after she created Uranus and the Mountains!

    Alas, I must be off, my fingers itch to let fly my golden arrows…