The last panel… wow, I can’t believe I never thought of that. It’s a really good point against omniscience, though.
Good point, really brings up the question over whether god really is omnipotent if he even exists.
Yeah, God knows everything, but that doesn’t mean we do. So the trials aren’t to show our faith to God but to ourselves.
So, you’re saying…if I’ve got faith, one day I might be walking along and god will decide that even though my faith is strong, I need to be reminded that my faith is strong? What if I fail the test and lose my faith? Kinda doesn’t make sense. I mean, the faithful are always trotting out Pascal’s Wager as an excuse for being faithful. If god wants people to stay faithful, the logical choice would be to never test them. That way, you can be sure they won’t lose faith.
I guess I just don’t get it…and hope I never do…
The whole concept of “faith trials” is what turned me off of Christianity completely. Read the story of Job. He was a good guy that, according to the story, did everything God asked of his followers. He was literally the “perfect” servant of God. Then Satan comes along and says “I bet if you took it all away he’d turn his back on you.” Here’s the kicker: instead of saying “What the hell are you doing here, Satan?!” and casting him back into hell, God (the all-knowing, all-loving) says “I’ll take that bet.” and proceeds to destroy Job’s life, killing his family, taking his land and all his possessions. In the end, Job praises God and God gives him a new family and new stuff, but WTF???
he killed his f’ing family!!
how do you suppose he explained himself to the people he killed?? “Satan dared me to.”
That story alone either proves that the bible is full of stories that should never be taken literally, or that God is no way omnipotent or worthy of being worshiped as such.
So, when you read the whole Bible and apply it to your “pointless” life, it will start to make sense, because you just might learn that you shouldn’t be observing God but rather have a relationship with him. He does love you and would not kill you or your family to prove a point. He knows that you have questions and will not leave you in the dark about what it is to have faith. I’ll say it again. Read the Bible, especially the part where God created the sun and know that you already have faith that it will come up in the morning. Question yourself and your lack of faith, not God who created faith and the sun and you.
I think God is far beyond we could reach right now. In Bible, (specially the Old Testament) many (if not almost all) of the stories directly involves God.
In my opinion God does not have a direct influence in physical world, we forget that there are other forces/hierarchies that are more closer to us that can interact with our existence.
Try to imagine that maybe the world is not so simple so that Gad will punish you or test your faith or whatever happened in the Bible stories. Those people just attributed the stories to God, but maybe is more than meets the eye
morethanfaith, that’s morethanstupid. First, before I’d put complete and utter blind faith in one of the gods, I’d have to confirm that one of them exists. Since there has never been a single shred of evidence in the entire existance of mankind to even HINT at the existance of some supreme beings, I don’t have a whole lot to go on. There’s your book that you apparently believe in….I’ve read it, cover to cover, multiple versions of it, there’s nothing in there at all to convince me in the existance of any of the gods in there. So, sorry, your god has the same challenge put in front of him I put in front of all of them: prove to me your existance, then explain why I should worship you, prove to me I’ll get some benefit from doing so…and then I’ll consider it. Since they can’t even be bothered to take the first step and give me a SHRED of evidence, then I can’t be bothered with them.
That being said, if your god should take the challenge, he sounds like a fun guy to follow. What with all the stoning and slavery his people are in to with his approval….
all over a comic strip.
the bible is a collection of short stories written by several men (fallible men). to think that anyone would take such a thing seriously is rather sad. i have been down the road of christianity, in fact, i spent most of my life there. now i am an atheist. nothing more nor less. it is not a badge of honor nor dishonor, it is merely a fact, a description. i believe only in what my own two hands can do. that is why i volunteer my time and donate my money to many charities. see?! atheism is not synonymous with “being evil”.
the fact is, i have never met a christian. i will more than likely never meet a christian. thank goodness for that too!
i do not have “faith” that the sun will rise the next day. because it never disappeared to begin with! also, do you really believe that just because there is no god that life is pointless?! it may have no real meaning in the sense that most philosophers would hope, but to say that it is completely pointless without your invisible best friend is just too sad for you. are you really that weak without having a religion to give you a purpose? how about you get involved in life. it’s the only one you have. i can’t say you will be disappointed when you pass away and find out, once buried six feet under, that you are all dressed up and have no place to go, but the fact is, you won’t know any better. please do not us that hackneyed argument that “well, if he doesn’t exist then having faith didn’t hurt; but if he does then i go to heaven and you will go to hell,” because your perspective is skewed to say the least. religion has been detrimental to the advancement of science, education, and peace efforts. there is no such thing as a christian child, only a child born to “christian” parents. hell, even in the bible your god wont hold kids accountable be cause they don’t know better. go ahead, say your kid’s a real christian. you would be proving me right when i say you are detrimental to society as a whole. your god couldn’t even keep his angles happy, his perfect little angels CREATED for nothing more than to worship him. and a third of them rebelled. maybe he’s not such a great guy after all…. if he even exists.
we are all atheists. i just believe in one less god than you. when you understand why you reject other gods, you may understand why i reject yours.
Religion is institutionalized hear/say, perpetuated by fear, ignorance and peer-pressure.
What would any of us know about deities if we hadn’t been informed about them by other human beings?
Any information about higher powers from sources other than the higher powers is NOISE.
“… you shouldn’t be observing God but rather have a relationship with him. ”
Why do people feel the need to anthropomorphisize the universe?
This seems to me to be a useless combination of arrogance and ignorance.
If there is a higher power, I imagine it would be insulted by being called a “him”.
I think i’ll stick to being agnostic.
If there is a God – cool
If there isn’t – oh well
I just don’t get the whole religion thing. It just puzzles me why so many people believe in something that has remained unproven for so long, and believe so strongly in a book that, in my opinion, could so very easily have been a fantastic work of fiction.
From Pilgrim at Tinker Creek by Annie Dillard:
“Eskimo: “If I did not know about God and sin, would I go to hell?”
Priest: “No, not if you did not know.”
Eskimo: “Then why did you tell me?””
One main problem I have with Christianity is the idea that God is omnipotent. If God is omnipotent, then that means he knew the thoughts and actions of every single person who would ever exist before he even created the universe. Nobody is accountable for their actions and there is no free will, because everything was preordained the moment God created us. It doesn’t matter what you say or do, because if you hold the belief that God is omnipotent, he already knew before you were born. If you try to claim that God granted us free will, then that means he has willingly robbed himself of his foresight and therefore his omnipotence. If there is a limit to that, then what other limits might God have? Why should I worship such a being? Even if a god or gods do exist, what reason do I have to worship them, especially if they’re not all powerful or if they already know everything I’ll ever do? Creating me isn’t reason enough. I don’t worship my parents.
Just a notice: You can’t prove science is correct deep down. If you take all the ‘evidence’ and ask for evidence for that evidence, you will either run into a circle, or a dead end where new questions come from. Unlike most religions, questions on the evidence is actually checked, and when it is found the evidence may be false, and thus the support, they modify the theories and look for another type of evidence that may work. Usually, evidence found wrong does minor damage to the superstructure of the scientific idea, but destroys everything that supports that evidence but not the ‘correct’ evidence. Even though there is a lot of evidence, and that bad evidence is stricken from the record, it could still be considered a religion. Unlike other religions though, they modify the base, and say what is unknown is unknown.
Sorry, just had to rant there.
Oh, and why do most religions think that at the end, there is only Heaven and Hell (and maybe limbo)? I mean really now. What if this world is just a bunch of 1s & 0s? What if we are all just a game for some programmer? I mean, it makes as much sense as the Judea-Christian (is that right) religions…
God, in the bible, literally says that you can do ANYTHING (literally, he uses picking up trees and throwing them into the sea, and moving mountains as examples) if you pray. You don’t even need very much faith (“faith the size of a seed”, it says) to do it. I think that proves that if he DOESN’T have power on earth, and be willing to use it, it disproves him. Meanwhile, people are praying everywhere and not getting what they need. The number of answered prayers are statistically meaninless, and ONE un-answered prayer by a christian of ANY level should be enough to disprove this.
“Now it is such a bizarrely improbable coincidence that anything so mind-bogglingly useful could have evolved purely by chance that some thinkers have chosen to see it as a final and clinching proof of the non-existence of God. The argument goes something like this:
“I refuse to prove that I exist,” says God, “for proof denies faith, and without faith I am nothing.”
“But,” says Man, “the Babel fish is a dead giveaway isn’t it? It could not have evolved by chance. It proves that you exist, and so therefore, by your own arguments, you don’t. Q.E.D.”
“Oh dear,” says God, “I hadn’t thought of that,” and promptly vanishes in a puff of logic.
“Oh, that was easy,” says Man, and for an encore goes on to prove that black is white and gets himself killed on the next zebra crossing.
Most leading theologians claim that this argument isn’t worth a pair of fetid dingo’s kidneys, but that didn’t stop Oolon Colluphid from making a fortune with his book Well That About Wraps It Up For God”
Douglas Adams, Hitchhikers guide to the galaxy
I don’t think God tempts us but Satan does. The way I have come to know this is through my church which taught that God just gives us the strength to persevere through the trials of Satan and the temptations bring us closer to Christ.
Why does “God” allow “Satan” to commit “evil” deeds?
If “God” is omnipotent, then it can stop “Satan” from doing anything that “God” doesn’t want it to do.
I hope, for it’s survival, that human beings evolve past religion and deities, before the extremists on all sides get the rest of us killed in their retarded armageddon scenario, which they seem determined to bring about whether “God” wants it or not.
Sorry, For Jesus, you don’t get to think about it. Your god tests you. I recommend you go back and look at the stories of either Jonah or Job. Perhaps that’s why Satan is only mentioned three times in the Old Testament (and not in any way that the christian mythology has built around him).
But, assuming your mythology is true: your god is omniscient, yes? Then, when he created Satan, he knew Satan was going to “fall” and later tempt his playthings. Why, then, did he create Satan? The only logical answer is he did so specifically to test people, and thus is doing so indirectly.
Nobody gets to use the word “logic” in defense of religion. Sorry, that’s the deal.
fun = D
no one is godless, not even atheists, believe me
that is–if you can
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